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Euro V vs High Altitude: problems crossing Andes' passes? (Sonstiges)

Du+Nica, Dienstag, 17. April 2018, 21:40 (vor 68 Tagen)
bearbeitet von Du+Nica, Dienstag, 17. April 2018, 22:03

Hello everyone, and Roberto & Jess specially,

Regarding this post here: http://panamericanaforum.org/index.php?id=23198

This part gave us pause:

We are aware that on a Euro 5 vehicle several changes have to be made for driving
at high altitudes (DPF must be safely removed and the control unit reprogrammed).

We are considering buying a motorhome based on an Euro-V diesel (a Peugeot Boxer with a 2014 110 HP 2.2 HDi engine) which as far as we've been able to determine via [1] and [2], is either a Ford Duratorq "Puma" ZSD-422, *or* a PSA DW12 -- the information is somewhat contradictory. But anyway, we're pretty sure it's an Euro V engine.

The seller has assured us he had no issues going through the high-altitude Andes passes; he mentioned the Passo de Jama specifically, which we know is over 4000m.

Is this correct, and is that engine specifically exempt from such high-altitude issues? Or is the seller possibly being less than entirely truthful?

(sorry for posting in English when the post we're mentioning was in German -- but our German is non-existent, and we barely trust Google Translate not to mess things up too much for our *reading* -- no chance we would trust it with translating our writing)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato#2010-
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#2.2

Thanks in advance for your clarifications,
--
Du & Nica.

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Euro V vs High Altitude: problems crossing Andes' passes?

IVECO Tony @, Wherever., Dienstag, 17. April 2018, 23:10 (vor 67 Tagen) @ Du+Nica

It isn't the up-over-down passes that are the main problem especially in Chile and Argentina because there are no roads that stay at such high elevations for very long distances. Paso Jama and similar allow fairly high travel speeds and of course the engine is under a decent load on the way up so can maintain the DPF in satisfactory condition. Fuel quality in Chile and Argentina is also said to be better provided you buy from the main brand stations.
The high plains in Bolivia where you can spend days chugging along at 3500 metres, at low temperatures, sometimes running on lesser quality fuel are where you can get problems because if the vehicle gets to the point where a regen cycle is needed, it often can't be carried out because the operating conditions don't allow it. Even that isn't necessarily terminal, but if it is allowed to continue, the computer system might eventually give up and select limp mode.

--
Tony Lee
Photos at https://picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
Travels map at https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=5cfc50ef7ac22ca2d&hoursPast=2400&...

Euro V vs High Altitude: problems crossing Andes' passes?

Horst @, Basel, Mittwoch, 18. April 2018, 08:10 (vor 67 Tagen) @ IVECO Tony

Fully agree and can confirm Tony.
See: http://panamericanaforum.org/index.php?id=21513
Short summary: Even with a EURO VI Sprinter we had NO PROBLEMS crossing high altitide passes like Paso de Jama or Paso San Francisco.
Constant load results in HIGHER temperature of the particulate filter and keep it in good condition. Monitoring of the particualte filter load did not provide any evidence for problems. Particular load remained VERY low.
It migth be different, if you STAY longer at higher altitude and need to use suboptimal diesel quality.
Enjoy planning an the trip.
Horst

Euro V vs High Altitude: problems crossing Andes' passes?

hjfampa @, Mittwoch, 18. April 2018, 09:47 (vor 67 Tagen) @ IVECO Tony

Tony & Horst gave very good answers - they confirms my current knowledge about the topic. We are having a EURO V Fiat Ducato and are facing the same question. Probably we won't remove it.

However, I am wondering if it is worth to replace the existing DPF with a new one or get a professional "dpf clean-up" before the trip?

What you guys think?

Euro V vs High Altitude: problems crossing Andes' passes?

Du+Nica, Mittwoch, 18. April 2018, 13:22 (vor 67 Tagen) @ Du+Nica

Hello Tony, Horst, HjFampa, and Gerd (in the other thread),

Thank you all for the great answers -- we now think we understand the limitations of these Euro engines vs altitude.

We do not plan on initially doing any extended travel at low engine loading and in high altitudes -- just pass crossings. And we plan on always using quality diesel.

But for the future, we will probably want to travel the high plains of Bolivia -- for Salar de Yuni if nothing else. So, like hjfampa, we would be interested in hearing more about DPF delete and other necessary modifications for that.

Thanks again,
--
Du & Nica.

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Euro V vs High Altitude: problems crossing Andes' passes?

IVECO Tony @, Wherever., Donnerstag, 19. April 2018, 03:14 (vor 66 Tagen) @ Du+Nica

Marcus Tuck drives an IVECO with a modern engine and he also carries a full diagnostic program on his computer with the required interfaces. He spent a lot of time in the high country and reported that he had no particula problems in Bolivia, BUT of course he was watching his system VERY closely and was able to counteract and substandard conditions as soon as they occurred so while his report was very interesting and quite useful, I don't regard it as all that relevant to normal users not having either the gear or the incentive or the knowledge and who aren't in such a good position to fix things before they become a problem

Probably find the info with a google search - his name, or maybe tuckstruck will get to his stuff. Cuthbert is the name of the truck

--
Tony Lee
Photos at https://picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
Travels map at https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=5cfc50ef7ac22ca2d&hoursPast=2400&...

self-diagnosis

ironi @, Samstag, 28. April 2018, 06:32 (vor 57 Tagen) @ Du+Nica

I would recommend to bring along a diagnostic system to your trip… like this one (80-300 Euro):

http://www.icarsoft.com/web/icarsoftus/allproducts/digitalinspection/2012/201...

I heard that similar systems like this exist to start a cleaning-process manually. I did not have a DPF and a totally different car, so I did not have a recommendation on the specific tool, but I’m sure there is one for your model.

If you would have problems, your Euro V is not a common car and special your Fiat is not. A cheap solution to solve/diagnose problems and maybe start a regeneration process manually, can get you out of some troubles. If you haven’t this tools whit you, it can be a long way to the next helping hand. Like in Bolivia, they are good in fixing problems on the mechanical side, but for software problems I’m not sure.
But of course you should know what you are doing and what can happen if you play around on your car electronics. Just what I can tell is, that I was missing one of this tools on my trip!

I heard a lot of stories about DPF and problems. But also meet people with DPF and no problems at all. You have to decide for yourself if the “trouble” you could come in to, is worth for you. I (for myself) would not mind if it is a good offer and the rest is okay for you. To remove the DPF can be a solution if your car is near a Explorer-car-company or a good and experienced car-computer-specialist. Never heard that you could find them in SA. In Europa you will spend a few thousands Euro for your idea.

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