Urwaldschutzprojekt in Paraguay braucht Eure Hilfe: Pro Cosara

Auto mittels "poder" verkaufen (Sonstiges)

Kathi, Montag, 04. Juni 2018, 22:16 (vor 18 Tagen)

Liebe Panamericana-Kenner!

Ich versuche gerade herauszufinden, wie man am besten sein Auto in Panama bzw. in Argentinien verkauft. Da ich schon etliche Blogs durchforstet hab, weiß ich, dass Import Steuern sehr hoch sind und der Prozess kompliziert, wenn nicht unmöglich ist. Beim Verkauf mittels einer Vollmacht ("poder") finde ich widersprüchliche Infos... Deswegen frage ich hier mal nach. :) So wie ich das verstanden habe, ist die Vollmacht nur dazu da, dass der neue Besitzer mit dem Auto durch ganz Südamerika fahren kann. Wir sind in den Zulassungsschein eingetragen und daher wirklich die Besitzer des Autos (das eine hat eine kanadische, das andere eine österreichische Nummerntafel). Wir würden das Auto in Panama bzw. Argentinien gerne so verkaufen, dass wir wirklich frei von jeder Verantwortung sind. Ist man das mit einem poder? Oder bin ich als eigentlicher Besitzer des Autos noch immer verantwortlich, falls es nach dem "Verkauf" (der Ausstellung der Vollmacht) in irgendwelche illegalen Sachen verstrickt ist?

Vielen Dank für eure Hilfe!

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Auto mittels "poder" verkaufen

IVECO Tony @, Wherever., Dienstag, 05. Juni 2018, 00:00 (vor 18 Tagen) @ Kathi
bearbeitet von IVECO Tony, Dienstag, 05. Juni 2018, 00:10

There is also a similar problem that can arise, where the person who borrows you vehicle ends up getting the blame for infractions that occurred while the vehicle was under your control. Actual example is the new owner driving into Ecuador and being accused of a previous overstay and outstanding fines of about $15000. Reason was Ecuador Aduana failed to cancel the TVIP, but end result was a lot of arguments extending over several weeks and even though it was finally agreed it was Aduana's fault, the new owner still ended up paying several hundred dollars. Another example was the owner of our first vehicle entered Argentina on the way to handing the vehicle over to me. At the border it was claimed they had 5 TVIPs outstanding and were refused entry. Eventually agreed they could drive to the provincial head office - a long detour for them - and sort it out. Again the reason was various isolated non-computerised borders failing to manually process the paperwork. Took some days to sort out by referencing their passports. Could have been me getting caught on the way out with no way to cross reference passports and with the owner back home so we could have lost the vehicle or been fined. Another real problem is if the new owner takes the vehicle back to the country you bought it, only to find there are fines or penalties for failure to register and insure it.

Point is, given the basic illegality of this process (which I have been through three times, twice as a buyer and once as a seller) and the lack of safeguards which no sane person would accept in a similar transaction back home, the whole process tends to require a lot of trust in a stranger (who is basically a used car salesman desperate to make a sale and who can't be relied on for warranty backup of any sort and often hasn't a clue about correct procedurres to be followed to minimise risk)) and a fairly high capacity to accept risk.

As for your question, the poder normally has a clause which makes the borrower responsible for any problems while it is under his control, but I think there was some learned opinion on this forum that there might be some circumstances where you can't hand over all responsibility for everything. Of course with you safely back home, I guess you are fairly safe. Not so for the borrower though.An example might be a serious accident due to mechanical failure while the vehicle is being driven to the border on your TVIP and under your insurance policy. Who is legally responsible?

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Tony Lee
Photos at https://picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
Travels map at https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=5cfc50ef7ac22ca2d&hoursPast=2400&...

Auto mittels "poder" verkaufen

Kathi, Dienstag, 05. Juni 2018, 21:38 (vor 17 Tagen) @ IVECO Tony

Thank you so so much! This is incredibly helpful! :)

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Auto mittels "poder" verkaufen

IVECO Tony @, Wherever., Mittwoch, 06. Juni 2018, 00:05 (vor 17 Tagen) @ Kathi

There seems to be as many solutions to this problem as there are people buying and selling vehicles so don't be surprised if you get lots of sure-fire methods from lots of people. Constant requests for Buying and Selling 101 but it is complicated by the number of combinations and permutations that have to be taken into account. Nationality of buyer and seller, country of registration of the vehicle, which country the exchange is to take place, which border is to be crossed first, where you want to go, whether the vehicle can be legally transferred back in the country of origin, whether the TVIP is still current, whether the seller will be there at handover etc etc.

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Tony Lee
Photos at https://picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
Travels map at https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=5cfc50ef7ac22ca2d&hoursPast=2400&...

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